13 Responses for "Discussion Attempt #2"

1. Angela Bowles November 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm 1

   Hello there!
   First of all, I love your blog! It is amazing and a great idea. I am kind of new to the whole blogging thing, so I am game to try a discussion through comments! I have taught several students piano lessons, and there has only been one who did not really make progress at all. To say the least, I first was very concerned about my teaching, and I tried to step it up a notch. I would give incentives, over extend my help in the problem areas, take extra time in drills, encourage, encourage, encourage, yet to no avail. It became very obvious to me that the student did not want to be taking lessons from me, so I just had a blunt but polite conversation with the parents. I told them that I valued having their child as one of my students, but that I thought that their time as well as my time was very important. I also let them know the extra steps that I was taking to try to make the lessons profitable, and I asked them to talk over the desire for taking lessons with their child. To me there are times when children do not like something that their parents want them to do, but over time they grow to like it and become better and better at it. Then, I think there are times when music just is not for a particular child, and no matter how hard a teacher or parent tries to get them to enjoy it, or at least learn it, there is just something that is not coming together to make that happen.
   So, enough of my rambling! But, to answer your question, I would definately do every thing possible on my end to make the lessons worth while and the most beneficial, but I would also take a look at how valuable my time is, and let the parents decide if they would like to keep their student enrolled. That way, you aren’t the bad guy, and you truly are showing a care and concern for the student, while keeping an eye on your back! I am going to add you to my blog roll! I love your blog! It has been very helpful to me!

2. Laura November 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm 2

   It makes me think of the Suzuki “philosophy”. Every child is musical…I teach piano lessons at a private Montessori school….and if any of you know the method, each child is individual and as the educator it is our job to use a variety of approaches to reach ALL children.. I would not drop a student unless there were behavioral issues…not learning issues.

3. sfrack November 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm 3

   Don’t know if you are still searching for answers, but my suggestion is to have the parent attend lessons and then have them act as their child’s coach at home. Put the retention responsibility on the parent.

4. Will Hay November 6th, 2008 at 2:36 pm 4

   This is a problem that I would imagine all teachers will face sooner or later. I think it depends upon the nature of the student’s difficulties. Some students are weaker than others and take longer to make the same level of progress. Some lessons don’t always go as well as others. Today one of my students couldn’t play their piece as well as they had done a month ago but I think we had to put it down to environmental and circumstantial issues, (their mum said they had got to bed quite late last night because of Fireworks night!)
   If this were consistently the case I would look at how much practise they were doing and how much parental support was present during the practise.
   I would obviously look at different teaching styles which may suit the student better if they were putting in the work but still making retrograde steps.
   If I found myself at my wit’s end with the student then I would recommend to the parent that they try another teacher who might be better able to help them.
   I have only done this once with a teenager who wasn’t interested in any music I gave her and didn’t do any practise. I sent an email to the parent who conceded that her daughter was having teenage tantrums about playing the piano so it was best to stop.

5. admin November 7th, 2008 at 12:51 pm 5

   It seems like everybody has a common theme in their answers: talk to the parents. That is, perhaps, the best place to start when it seems that a student isn’t progressing in the way we would hope. But then, is that another discussion? At what point do you approach a parent and how much involvement do you expect from a parent?

6. Ruth November 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm 6

   The Bible says to “train up a child in the way that he should go”….not the way we want them to go. Let’s face it….We don’t choose music, it chooses us…and it is not for everyone…Thank goodness! The job of the parents is to give the child a chance to discover the way he or she is “bent”. If after a fair amount of time the child is not “growing” in their love for piano, it might be time to send them along to their next adventure. we as teachers are to provide teaching in the style that will lead to success, or recognize that this is not the child’s calling. To everything there is a season.

7. admin November 8th, 2008 at 11:48 am 7

   Ruth, you make some great points. I wonder, though, what if the child loved piano lessons but just couldn’t progress?

8. Ruth November 8th, 2008 at 8:16 pm 8

   Admin…..
   I guess the obvious question is “Who is to judge progress?”.If the student loves playing and enjoys the lesson time…that is the progress that should be evaluated. We should just relax everyone’s expectations and just allow that child to revel in the love of coming to lessons and having that very special relationship with the teacher. Who cares if this child never advances to harder music? for some, just playing a few simple songs is enough, and if the parents are happy…everyone should rejoice in helping a child find a little enjoyment in this chaotic world they must live in. Given enough time, the student will decide to “move on’ to other avenues and to continue exploring other possibilities available to them. But don’t we all know of many adults who would just love to sit down at the piano and play just for the sheer enjoyment of it? Kids are like that also!

9. Derek (michiganstatepianopedagogy.blogspot.com) November 10th, 2008 at 11:11 am 9

   Great discussion! So many good points are made here. I’d like to point us all in the direction of that elusive idea of motivation and to say that it might be as elusive as we once thought…

   I certainly agree with the point made in the last post that the simple joys in music making at the lesson should really be our barometer of success with a student, but even these students will feel even better about their record of improvement and, more importantly, self-worth when they are guided into success.

   Success and accomplishments are wonderful addictions. It is our job as teachers to figure out the profile of these weekly and daily accomplishments of our students based on their particular strengths as students. We’re really teaching our students to succeed in the rest of their life rather than just at the piano.

   And lastly, I’d like to second the comments about the integral role of parents here. It’s difficult for a student to feel motivated when his parents have no expectations of him, and also difficult for a student to feel motivated when his creativity and joy are being squashed by parents who are exceedingly critical. Parental expectations are something that, ideally, will be established with a teacher early on in that child’s studies to create a situation where these motivational messages are consistent at home and in the studio.

10. Ruth November 10th, 2008 at 5:13 pm 10

    Amen and Amen! Very well said! since very few concert pianists are around and very few in our society value them, then our goal as teachers is to bring into the life of our students a successful experience and a love of accomplishment. The very fact that we, as teachers, are privileged to interact with these precious kids one on one and to applaud loudly their efforts, is reason enough to love teaching. I am not a concert pianist, but earned a Masters in Piano, because of the encouragement of special teachers who thought I was “wonderful”. Economics are tough, and families are struggling to hold things together. Students feel these tensions in their homes, and a weekly trip to their “cheerleading” piano teachers home can be a bright spot in their week, and for some, their salvation of success! but again, music is NOT for everyone, and some will only stay for a short time with us, before moving on to other explorations…It is not our fault as teachers, but rather God’s way of developing specific talents in these precious souls! We are so very blessed to have this opportunity in life, let’s celebrate it by being the very best teacher in the life of that “very wonderful kid”!

11. admin November 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm 11

    “Success and accomplishments are wonderful addictions….We’re really teaching our students to succeed in the rest of their life rather than just at the piano.”

    Sorry to copy and paste, Derek, but I LOVED your words! I think this puts it all into perspective so nicely.

    Ruth, I like the idea of lessons being a cheerleading time as well!

12. Piano Mom November 14th, 2008 at 9:10 pm 12

    I just happened upon your blog but I find this particular conversation fascinating. I’ve been teaching for 10 years and I’ve learned this one thing…every student learns in his/her own way. I’ve had students who sight read very well, some who play by ear and others who find that theory helps tie it all together. I have learned to tailor my teaching to each individual student. I do agree that the student’s enjoyment is an important measure, but I’ve also found that it is helpful to ask the parent what expectations they have for their student. If the parent is happy, then we move forward. I’ve only ever had to “drop” a student, and I waited until the end of the year to do so. In that conversation, I simply told the parent that while I maintain a philosophy that all children benefit from music instruction, that not all children excel at the piano and that perhaps they might explore other avenues.

13. Dan the Music Master November 20th, 2008 at 3:48 am 13

    If the student in question is enjoying their lessons, then half the battle is being won. As for progress, I think that you’ll have to dig deep in order to communicate with the challenged student. It will make you grow as a teacher.

    The fact that you’re very concerned about your students well-being is wonderful and sensitive. I’m sure you’ll come up with a solution.